And sometimes after you went through this procedure, the game would never show you new changes live. Players can play two cards per turn, each card may be played in one of five lanes. I think some form of card rotation could have solved many of the growing issues the game had. I was always a bit of a fanboy and rooting for the game, but that moment made it clear they still didn’t have a handle on things. You should be able to do something with additional copies of cards that you no longer need. for 15+ years, I played Vs. System, I got some experience doing coverage in Magic and I got to know some players there and I've played a whole lot of the WoW TCG. With SolForge, you never knew if the next set was just around the corner or 4 months away. SolForge is a free to play digital trading card game designed for cross-platform and mobile play. SolForge was a free-to-play digital collectible card game by Stone Blade Entertainment. It was extremely frustrating. Each player begins with a deck of 30 cards and a starting life total of 120 health. :-). I wasn't like this before the last big update. I heard rumours of FRG holding code hostage. With a Digital game, you have to pay a higher cost for each card/mechanic you want to try out. I've been involved with Yu-Gi-Oh! Is it just plain impossible to produce a successful and profitable digital card game? The numbers for Solforge, Faeria, Duelyst, and Shardbound are about the same - 2,000-3,000 players at peak. Solforge, which is free to play, recently went live near Gen Con 2013, and is improving as we go, allowing for custom deck building now, and campaign and tournaments down the road. SolForge. There would be 15-20 cards on the public storefront at a time, these cards would be randomly selected from the pool of all available cards (with lower chances for higher-rarity cards to appear), and would rotate out every ~30 minutes to 2 hours. I've been playing steadily since it launched. The first walks away with 30 $, 2nd gets 20 $, 3rd and 4th get 10 $, 5th - 8th get 5 $. Be careful to balance the needs of the npe vs the features for the rest of the game, Bad matchmaking was because there were few players. So, what went wrong? Your Tags: Add tags. A lot of things could have been better but weren't game killers on their own. People are understanding, but they were looking forward to the release on the 7th day and there's some disappointment.Had you told everyone in advance that it's going to launch in 10 days, but you delivered it in 8, they feel like you were working extra hard for them and beat expectations. Hope it helps. I do remember one of my friends pointing out how ridiculous the Phoenix was. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. I've demoed this game for Stoneblade at PAX East multiple times now. SolForge combines all of the strategy and depth of a traditional trading card game experience with the convenience of online and mobile gaming. The below are simply some of my own thoughts and opinions, and do not represent any company I have worked for in the past, present, or future :). I personally suspect it to be closer to 20,000 per game, but let's give the best possible odds. Its first expansion, “Rise of the Forgeborn,” was released on March 22, 2014. You should also be able to auction them off to other players and they'll pay you money or something along those lines. It seemed (I’m speculating here) that there was some rift that happened between SBE and FRG. Build your own decks from multiple styles of play, and play against friends or compete in online tournaments - or for a little downtime, face the single … It features a rich library of flavorful cards, deep strategic game play and challenging PvP competition. Please pay attention to the New Player Experience. So all they see is "pay 1 $, win 30 $ - wow, this is great!" The current open beta version includes deckbuilding, collection management, online play, AI opponents, tournaments, drafts, and more. The player numbers are so low across the board that it seems they could never support the development costs. Once a card is played, it is replaced by a more powerful variant of the card (upgrade) up to a maximum level. I currently have two lists: one like Karnegal's sample list and a tempys/alloyn aggro/ramp list. After a month of investment, was like “ooops” and then “there will be no restoration, have a small prize and just forget the last month happened”. What’s more, the pace may quicken now that other features like the new UI and ranked play are done. (): Watch your thoughts, for they become words. You just had to play some games and it got so boring that some people promoted getting a second account so you could just auto-play against yourself and get the free stuff this way. I was explaining some core concepts, like player types (basically the legendary article by the makers of MtG about Timmy, Johnny and Spike), but I also elaborated some marketing techniques and how they can lead to higher satisfaction. SolForge Turn Phases. You'd have to leave the game, reconnect and then you might see if something happened. It's make it very tedious to play. That's just insipid. I've been following it since just after their Kickstarter ended, however now they're in … Why did SolForge die? My addition is: really bad New Player Experience (NPE). I had also drafted a turn time limit system in which players would be given a low amount of time to make their move (say, 10-20 seconds per turn), but leftover time they didn't spend would spill over into their next turn, up to a set limit (say, 5 minutes). It’s based around creature combat in lanes with victory obtained through reducing your opponent’s life total to 0. At the start of each turn you draw five new cards but can only play two of them. There were also some pretty bad quality control practices. And that's simply impossible for any project that doesn't have 1. the backing of a massive company with deep pockets, 2. the funding for large marketing campaigns, 3. the support of an already-massive pre-existing IP or franchise, and 4. gameplay simplistic enough for mass appeal that is easily digestible to a mainstream audience. 8) Closed environment - you couldn't get money OUT of the gameI'm not entirely sure how important this aspect is... but I always felt like if you're allowed to dump money INTO a game, the game should also allow you to EXTRACT money from it. What I'm trying to point out, is that when making card games/board games, it can be very easy to make a new rule/card and playtest it. Thanks for chiming in. He was frustrated however by the business model, and the lack of a secondary market for cards, which he felt gave the game a "slight 'pay-to-win' feel". I'll post both later. Basic math indicates that it would need to get $500 from every player on average just to break even with a 50,000 lifetime playerbase, let alone profit. I am looking into making a rather advanced/complex (and therefore niche) online TCG/CCG right now, and I'd like to understand the market a little better before I do so so I can avoid the pitfalls others in this field have fallen into. However, Stoneblade determined that players were getting too much out of draft, and reduced the rewards many times. the mismanagement on the business side of things killed the game. [1] According to Stone Blade CEO Justin Gary, the game ended up costing over five times this amount to develop. But if I compare this to Fire Emblem Heroes again, it feels like in that game, you were overwhelmed with free stuff. What mistakes did it make, and what can future TCG's/CCG's do to avoid the same fate? Extremely poor systems in place to punish bad sportsmanship: like players that would just stop playing for 19 minutes straight once you had them cornered. OVERVIEW. No way to purchase it. SBE tried to address this by printing cards, but I think they failed, becasue if you don't know how to best mitigate level screw, how are you supposed to know which combination of cards helps best against it? SolForge is a free-to-play, digital collectible card game in which players get to construct their own decks and challenge their friends, or battle against a computer.Though still in open beta and part of the Early Access program on Steam, it already features deckbuilding, collection management, online play, AI opponents, tournaments, drafts, and more. Have 100 players participate if your player base allows it. Issue #2: Card design space shrunk with each new set. Excellent point about the servers. Cards listed on the "public" marketplace would be randomly selected by the game, and wouldn't be coming from any individual players' pools, but would simply be sold by the game itself (effectively spawning new copies of those cards). If you assume, for arguments' sake, that development costs would be around $1,000,000 (which I honestly think is an extreme lowball estimate to begin with), then you'd need to make $1,000 per user with a playerbase of 1,000 users in order to just break even, let alone turn a profit. I mean, Hearthstone is certainly not the best TCG in the world, but there's no arguing that the client is excellent. Killion gave a huge boost to leveling strategies, and made it easy for control decks to play a level 3 card without ever playing its level 1 or 2 versions. First off, I want to make it clear that I don’t think either Hearthstone or SolForge are pay-to-win games.You can enjoy both games comfortably without ever paying a cent if you prefer, though obviously, since they are both free-to-play games, … I currently have two lists: one like Karnegal's sample list and a tempys/alloyn aggro/ramp list. Solforge is a new DCCG currently being developed Stone Blade Entertainment. Now I can't get enough of it! ;). When set 2 came out, a lot of players had most of the cards from set 1, so only set 2 cards were relevant, so about 40% of cards from each pack. Dusting them is OK, but trading them with other players is far better. do, re, mi, fa, sol, la ti, and do. Issue #3: Card acquisition and the new player experience became worse with each set. Give it time, build some decks, watch some videos, read some articles, there is plenty to see and learn. I think from a Gameplay perspective the biggest mistake was that while Solforge was easy to learn, it was too hard to grasp more advanced concepts. Solfège is an exercise used for sight-reading vocal music in which each scale degree is assigned a coordinating syllable. It was literally unplayable unless you had a top tier deck and just barely playable if you did. As the game progresses, you gain access to your more powerful higher level cards. Tell people in advance if you're going to miss deadlines. You just had to wait until it somehow became the card of the month, and if it wasn't, tough shit. Popular Tags: David desJardins . Solforge is now available on Android devices worldwide June 19, 2014 June 20, 2014 Calob Horton 2 Comments Android , apps , Games , Solforge I have some super awesome news for those of you who are fans of digital card games and own an Things like level screw didn't matter, for the same reason mana screw hasn't killed magic. Man this thread is memory lane of frustration lol. In the early sets, games would usually last until ranks 3, 4, or 5 (10-20 turns for each player). Follow 11523. They invested a pile of time (and likely money) with a different developer (FRG) to re-do the client app. Rage of Kadras put a severe limit on the strength of all future tempys cards printed, as the card could easily get 3+ cards worth of value when played if you have multiple decent tempys creatures on the board. I would try to simplify my code/architecture for making new cards and mechanics. Cards deal damage to the opponent's card in its respective lane. First they introduced new mulligan rules (non card change), but they also introduced Merchants, tons of different dual/tri color sigils and quite a few keywords (Pledge, .. ) to address mana screw/flood (just to name a few). Available now on Steam, Android, and iOS! SBE was incredibly slow to react to and/or resolve problems like bugs and broken cards/metas. Lots of reasons, the biggest though was spending WAY WAY too much on their servers, this drained resources from everything else and caused most of the other problems. It just felt like level screw decided games too often and it was far from clear (for a new player) how to migigate this effect. Excessive hard removal frustrate player’s attempt to build a tableaux. (The Android version was released just as this document was finalized I should make sure the app works properly the first time, so I don't have to redo it. Once the game was running, you'd see developers or their community managers a lot less on the online message boards. Continuously. So let's say your game allows you to buy into tournaments with tickets. My friend and I have been trying to play a game for the past 20 minutes, and after each turn we need to exit the game and reload it. For this to get it right you need to invest some significant amount of money and SBE clearly lacked the funding. Hey, everybody can afford a dollar, right? This might have been okay if PvP were well thought out, but... ...the match algorithm was poor. If the state of the game changes where we are able to create a trainer it will be listed on our requests page. So players would be rewarded for playing quickly, and even if someone decided to time you out, you would waste no more time than if they had simply spent 10-20 seconds per turn in the first place. SolForge is a Kickstarter success story, nearly doubling their not insignificant target of $250,000, and since then going live on Steam, where it has been unfolding for a couple of weeks. After it came out it was buggy, there was a lot of mixed opinions on changes. SolForge is a free-to-play game in which players construct their own decks to challenge their friends or battle against the computer. [9], SolForge is a competitive two-player turn-based strategy game. The problem is that these cards exist permanently, and limit the design space of every future set, especially when 20+ of these types of cards exist at once. I only stopped playing that game because they churned out so much content that I felt like I could never keep up. There were many cards printed throughout the game that enabled different types of strategies, but also limited the types of cards that could be designed. ;), I did give a presentation to the makers of Carte (yet another online tcg) a long while back and explained how TCGs are working in general and which buttons you need to press to make sure that players are into it. That's a problem that's specific to SolForge, though, and might not be applicable to the situation, even though it's a major part of what went wrong. This set expectations pretty high for a lot of folks (me included); they assumed it would continue in this way. 4) Very little free stuffYou got a pack every now and then and sometimes, if they screwed up, you also got other stuff. It’s based around creature combat in lanes with victory obtained through reducing your opponent’s life total to 0. I never paid money for SolForge after the kickstarter and I still had super competitive decks, but it didn't feel like fun keeping up with the game. If games are quick and tournaments can be run efficiently (you need to figure out scheduling, what to do if someone doesn't show up for their match, etc. 1) Lack of community management / interactionDuring the kickstarter and in the early days, they interacted heavily with the players. A lot of great stuff in here that I forgot about. You CONSTANTLY had to leave games and reconnect. You can click on random stuff on the field while you're bored and stuff is happening. New Thread ; Printer Friendly ; Subscribe ; Bookmark ; Thread Rolls. So newbies were routinely getting matched with experts and getting pummeled into oblivion due to lack of cards. The leveling mechanic, which was the most important mechanic in Solforge, became far less reliable, and some decks ended up entirely ignoring this mechanic. 9) Tournaments / formats for new playersThe power creep in TCGs is often less of a problem if the game supports several formats, e.g. Your real answer requires internal information about how people spent money compared to with other FTPs. Solforge was boring for me too when I first tried it because it felt like a poor man Magic. And you can buy tickets with money. Solforge has very little variance deck to deck in terms of building a deck to win in the first X number of turns; you basically just have a deck that works well at all times and probably works better in the mid to late game than it does early game. SolForge, the collectible card game co-created by the original creator of Magic: The Gathering, is shutting down at the end of the month.To find … Experienced players would commonly drop the game after a new set was released if they did not have a large amount of crafting dust stored up as there was no effective ways to get new cards. Now I can't get enough of it! Earlier in January, we reported that digital card game SolForge was going to shut down on the 31st due to too large of a scope and presumably financial reasons. I intend to have dedicated packs for each new set/expansion (as well as options to limit the contents of the pack to a particular color/element in exchange for boosting the price of the pack to narrow down the contents), as well as a free marketplace system where players can buy and sell cards on their storefronts freely, as well as a "public" marketplace where individual cards are sold directly on the storefront (not by any individual player, but by the game) for prices roughly equal to the value of the card or a bit higher. Hope that helps. The last ray of hope for this dying world is the SolForge, an enormous spire of power, warmth and magic with origins predating history. My primary concern has increasingly become that digital TCG's/CCG's may simply impossible to develop for with the expectation of profitability due to how small the playerbase in general is. Wonderful! Solforge, you dissappointed me after the new client release, but you will never die from my heart. There wasn’t a lot of new content during this time, so interest probably waned. SolForge is Leaving Early Access after Three Years Unleash the warmth within when SolForge becomes fully available on Steam on May 31. Whenever you play a card, that card levels up into a new, more powerful version. This response was incredibly helpful. When the game launched, all the cards you opened from packs would be relevant. SolForge is a good, interesting game, providing you get used to its unique brand of swinginess. Many experienced players who focused primarily on drafting left once it became unsustainable. In an effort to bring you more of the digital world of Board Gaming, we're taking our first dive into a recorded Critical Play of Solforge! Since the Story Mode was so bad, new players pretty much were forced to play online matches (and the daily rewards were almost entirely based on online matches). SolForge is a digital card game, released by Stone Blade Entertainment on August 13, 2013. Most card rewards were in the form of generic packs, which included cards from every set. We currently don't have any SolForge trainers, cheats or editors for PC. Its first expansion, “Rise of the Forgeborn,” was released on March 22, 2014. And if I do have to redo something, I probably shouldn't sink a ton of money into rebuilding it from the ground up rather than simply patching holes. StarvingGamer. Hex, Solforge, Faeria, Cabals, Mabinogi Duel, pretty much everything that isn't either Hearthstone or Shadowverse (extremely simple games with easy rules and therefore mainstream appeal) dies within a few years, regardless of how good it actually is (and I've heard VERY good things about all the games I listed, and even played a few of them myself extensively). The game is available on PC and iOS, and an Android version is in development. If I were making such a game from scratch with what I know now, I would invest heavily to having a very simple to understand set of core rules/gameplay (including how to handle edge case interactions). I wouldn't really expect to get more than about $10 per user on average, and to make a million bucks - which, in the grand scheme of things, isn't all that much, especially given the scale of the project and the amount of time, effort, and manpower needed to make it happen - you'd need 100,000 users each paying $10 on average just to make a cool million. Solforge has very little variance deck to deck in terms of building a deck to win in the first X number of turns; you basically just have a deck that works well at all times and probably works better in the mid to late game than it does early game. Overall it had a bad perceived randomness to it - especially for newer players. Meaning we had to iterate or throw away that effort. On top of that, there was no way to "impulse purchase" in the game. (): Watch your thoughts, for they become words. Just give players an opportunity to enroll in a tournament that costs 1 $ entry. Or to explain it this way: Let's say you're expecting to release a new feature in 7 days. SolForge is a digital card game, released by Stone Blade Entertainment on August 13, 2013. The creators of Ascension and Magic: The Gathering have joined forces to create a revolutionary digital trading card game. You'd have to leave the game, reconnect and then you might see if something happened. Solforge is a free to play game with generous daily rewards just for playing. The head of Sirlin Games and creator of Puzzle Strike, Yomi, and Flash Duel has been speaking out against CCGs and League of Legends since 2010. Feel free to adjust these numbers to your liking... but the principle should be very clear. (Perplexing, since there was pretty much a fleshed-out world and milieu in the game!) 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